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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 29, 2010 10:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: kids and the Dead

The thread on Mickey's music-to-gestate-by got me thinking. For those of you who have kids, what has their reaction been to the Dead? What do they like or not like?

My son once characterized the music in a way I just love. He called it "surfer jazz." I thought the "jazz" ideas was pretty intuitive, but surfer? When I asked him about it, he put his arms out, mimed a surfer, and said, "You know ... Wooooooosh!"

He seems to favor cowboy Dead in general; on the whole, he appreciates that they don't have "mushy" songs. His oddest favorite is Whiskey in the Jar, which I think is only a tape of them messing around at Club Front a few months before Jerry's death. Don't think they ever performed it, though I could be wrong.

What's the reaction around your houses?







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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jun 30, 2010 9:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Althea -

It's an old post but worth repeating I think.

Daughter is now 25, son is 22. Both still go to shows with me but I get a lot of eye rolls from her.

Just saw Yonder Mountain back at the beginning of June with them - son enjoyed immensely despite being a tech metal guitarist, daughter tolerated them and thinks Ben Kaufman (YMSB bassist) is cute.

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=223699

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 30, 2010 11:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

I agree w / dire , .." the wizened face of Methuselah " .. , is just priceless .
Hey Mando , haven't said hello in a bit , hope things are well with you .

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jun 30, 2010 11:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Micah -

Doing well. Suffering at the rock pile. The A/C at work went out over the weekend so we were treated to a nice work environment of 97 outside/97 inside.

Then some freakin' rocket scientist decided to migrate our data servers - then realizing it was the beginning of the week stopped after moving about a third of my data files. So now none of them work.

Guess I have a good reason to spend time wallowing around the Forum.........

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 1, 2010 9:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

I love suffering fools ( myself @ the head of the line ) gladly . It makes me so calm . So reasoned . Then add some heat ( look your leaving a lighter carbon ' footprint ' , you must be better then me ) . The holiday week-end is coming . Unless you run your own deal , then Ha , no break for you . Sean

edit - hope things cool down and you have a clear , cold drink of water waiting . Happy 4th

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-07-01 16:52:31

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 2, 2010 6:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Great review, Methusaleh. Good luck in your continuing efforts to deprogram Rappy Bojangles!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jun 29, 2010 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

How old is he?

My son is 17 and gently tolerated the Dead till he recently seems to have hit a more turbulent phase of adolescence and lately I've got only eye rolling.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 29, 2010 2:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

>How old is he?


He's 14 now, so I can see the eye-rolling phase coming ... gaaak! I'm trying to get a fix on his musical tastes. It's interesting and odd. He can't bear mid-60s psychedelic music, which I adore, because he thinks it's "depressing." The Byrds are depressing?!? Sigh. So no Yardbirds, Airplane, etc. And primal Dead is way too "weird."

He trends toward music that's upbeat -- he's big on Irish music -- and fortunately seems to think the Dead sound cheerful, so he'll ask me to play them sometimes. He absolutely hates Jim Morrison, Mick Jagger, etc. (Not cheerful, I guess.)

Yet at the moment he's into, get this, Somali music. So: primal Dead, no; drums and haunting chants in Arabic, though, are cool. And no, I didn't even play Mickey Hart to him in the womb.

Go figure.


This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-06-29 21:53:09

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jun 29, 2010 6:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

I think at fourteen he isn't adolescent-angsty enough to appreciate the mid-sixties stuff, I can see what he means about "depressing." I don't find it depressing but I kinda see how a fourteen year old does. My son at fourteen was all Beatles all the time.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 29, 2010 7:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Yes, in the classic question, "Beatles or Stones?," he's definitely a Beatles guy at this point!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jun 30, 2010 5:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Yeah, Stones is a year or two after Beatles, just wait.

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Jun 30, 2010 6:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Feed him Ya- Ya's and watch him go.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jun 29, 2010 12:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

My about to be 17 year old daughter spent about 10 hours at Bamboozle at Nassau last Saturday. She likes the Grateful Dead but not sure she has classified them. She is fascinated that one song can be 30 or 40 minutes long.

My 7 & 10 year olds like the GD but think I play them too much, and my 14 year old likes to make fun of me and convince me that the current Pop music she listens too is real music.

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Poster: jacofny Date: Jun 29, 2010 12:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Help! 2 Boys 16/19 My kids like rap. It drive me nuts. Some of it makes me into a crazy man. Ten minutes is all I can take or I leave the room.
They like all sorts of music. rock,jazz,and classical.When they go to concerts they always put their money on rock.My 16 year old is a great first class drummer. (like his Dad) I have always tried to show them what musicianship is all about. Always regret not taking them to an outdoors GD show.But it was too late.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Jun 29, 2010 8:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Your reaction to rap is totally understandable. I try to look at it from a generational point of view - my parents thought that the Stones were the Devil incarnate. And, I try to think of rap not as music, but street poetry. You are lucky in that they also show some wider interest in other types of music as well.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 29, 2010 11:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

My 9 year old daughter really likes some of it, but complains we listen to too much and likes to make fun of certain songs to see if she can annoy me and simultaneously earn her mom's approval. They mock me with "roll away the dew" and "fire, fire on the mountain" repeated multiple times in varying tones of voice. Both ladies prefer Wilco, Lucinda Williams, and Richard Thompson (again, music we probably listen to too much of as well). My daughter plays flute and is on a major Beatles kick these days - which I did not encourage but do point her to stuff. Then again, they make me listen to a LOT of ABBA and showtunes.

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2010-06-29 18:37:09

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Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Jun 29, 2010 11:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

We have the Mamma Mia! soundtrack for long car trips, and I try to view the suffering it causes me as some kind of penance for past wrongdoings.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 29, 2010 11:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Yea, the problem is not so much the tunes, but Pierce Brosnan may be many things, but a singer he is not.

My daughter is only now beginning to realize that Meryl Streep is better known for other roles. She begged me to let her see the Julia Child film just because Streep was in it (and I thought she might be a bit young for Sophie's Choice).

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 29, 2010 12:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

" .. the problem is not so much the tunes ... "

Bd , you may have a serious problem here . Repeat that phrase a few times . Don' t you see how its affecting you ? It's not right . It's sad.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jun 29, 2010 6:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

There is just SERIOUSLY nothing you could have done to deserve that.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 29, 2010 11:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

That is cruel and unusual punishment .

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jun 29, 2010 11:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

>they make me listen to a LOT of ABBA

Holy cow, I don't think I could even allow that. You must be a very tolerant papa.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jun 29, 2010 11:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

My 15 year old has no interest in the Grateful Dead, either positive or negative - it's just one of the things her Dad listens to now and then. Makes no difference to me; I've never been an evangelist. When she was younger she did like some of the music I listened to but now she pretty much does her own thing, although there's still a lot we both agree on. It's all good because I get introduced to stuff I might not have stumbled on to by myself.

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jun 29, 2010 7:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

I'm 20, I grew up with my dad playing Dead tapes all the time. Around age 12 I got really into them but couldn't really handle long jams - I really just liked their singing and style, esp. on short cowboy songs like big river and me and my uncle. It wasn't till college when I actually bothered to listen to live dead all the way through, and that was it - I'm now a more bona fide deadhead than my dad ever was (I'm slowly getting him up to speed though).

I usually achieve little success when trying to turn my friends on to their jamming, although many of my buddies appreciate the catchier songs. It's one of those things where it sort of has to be the Right Moment, the stars have to be aligned right or whatever, for the music to really hit you in your soul for the first time.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 29, 2010 7:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

I sound like an old fart here ( but I don't care ) , MC how , from your viewpoint , does your peer group look upon GD , and the scene in general ?

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jun 30, 2010 9:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

For the most part, no one my age knows the music of the dead, at least beyond american beauty and workingman's dead. even live dead is pretty much beyond their realm of awareness.

Not that some of them couldn't dig it - I think most people just don't even know how much the dead have to offer in comparison with album-driven bands of the 90's and 00's. They haven't been exposed to improvisational music, so they don't know what it's about - furthermore, most people my age don't even have any idea that the dead WERE an improvisation-centric group; they think of them as hippie dippies who got 3 or 4 good albums out and then went on tour for 3 decades with the same 20 or 30 songs. It's a cold, painful musical world on college campuses.

What i wish is not that these people would all suddenly start listening to the dead, but that more rock groups would be willing to venture into the territory that the dead started bushwhacking. I know there are some "jam bands" out there but from what I've heard their jamming isn't particularly adventurous. I want a group where the members have real creative chemistry and can turn people on to the improvisational music scene.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 30, 2010 10:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Thanks monk and MC
Is there a general lack of melody in recent ' pop ' ( for lack of a better word ) music ? ' Rock ' w/ out a blues base is pretty soulless .
For my peer group music was extremely important , living so close to the blaze begun in the 60's . We always felt like we had to catch up to keep are musical head above water . Then perish the thought of anything post , The Wall ( huge piece of Roger Waters tripe ) having any musical relevance ( that sounds sort of like a post '95 barrier ). The Dead were not even close to being on the radar . Nirvana was our generations big collective FU to the baby boomers who had smothered us with their culture . Not that there are some gems ( duh , GD ) but it is nice to be able to pick and choose , rather then have to take the whole deal . The Baby Booms , Lots of them . Big Generation .

I agree that most ' jam ' bands have not caught my attention . However, I have gone backward in time in my listening interests for the last several years ( mostly due to a bad case of jazz ). I have , sadly , no clue what new music is being created ( outside of artists I already follow ) .

MC - college life seems so ... so.. I can't find the right word

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 1, 2010 7:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

On reading that post I think maybe i'm being a bit cynical. There are definitely dead fans scattered about but they are not very common at all, and i've never met anyone with dead fervor even close to matching mine.

Once in a while I can find a (sometimes stoned) friend or two to relax and listen to an hour or two of dead jams while playing cards or talking, and most seem to enjoy it, or at least it doesn't make them crazy.

But when i put the dead on in the car with my friends they moan and complain and say they are falling asleep. i have access to all this incredible music, it kills me that i have no one to share it with who really appreciates it! At least i know i've found the right girl to shack up with, if i meet a woman who really understands and loves the dead, or learns to. Not likely in my lifetime though :(

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 2, 2010 11:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Think of it this way, MC. Right now, listening to the Dead is equivalent to someone in college in, say, 1980 listening to a jazz band that toured from 1935 to 1965. How's that for perspective? (Yikes!)

Of course, there are always a few people around who listen to music much older than themselves. Bluegrass musicians can be pretty obsessed with Stanley Bros, Carter Family, etc. Jazz fans can wax eloquent about the 40s and 50s. But I'd bet a college student who is really into, say, Miles Davis would be every bit as frustrated as you are in terms of finding people with sympatico tastes. People who are deeply knowledgeable about styles of music that aren't "of the moment" aren't your typical college kids! They're on the "afficianado" level, be it jazz, showtunes, bluegrass, Dead, folk, classical, whatever.

And really, the Dead were ALWAYS kind of obscure, and always dismissed by the mainstream (when the mainstream even noticed), even at their so-called height of popularity. What's amazing to me is that people who never saw the band do get into it at all ... really a testimony to the power of the music. So I'm betting you'll manage to find or convert the right 21st century hippie chick someday :-)

And hey, at least you probably find more people who are willing to listen to the Dead than if you were, say, a 20-year-old opera lover!




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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 2, 2010 1:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

all good points - i sincerely appreciate the input!

I happen to be a jazz lunatic as well, esp. thelonious monk, coltrane, eric dolphy and charles mingus. And you're right, it's way harder for friends to get into that than the dead. (Incidentally I also love opera, but i'm not obsessed with it.)

I am pretty open-minded to music from "now," it's just that most of it fails utterly to impress me. Perhaps a band of my generation will emerge and blow everybody away, including deadheads!

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 2, 2010 1:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Are you one of my lost children ? You can come over anytime and talk / listen to any of that good music .

Please try ,

Bill Evans , The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings , 1961
Amazon has some excellent reviews of this wonderful music .

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 2, 2010 2:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

yeah! evans is indeed one of the all time greats and i own that recording along with perhaps 10-20 other albums of his. i was a jazz piano major when i first entered college (have since switched to math...not sure how that happened) so that's what that's about.

email = [edit: removed] if you want to chat more about music

This post was modified by midnightcarousel on 2010-07-02 21:46:25

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 2, 2010 2:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

I will MC

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 2, 2010 1:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Yes, I like jazz and opera, too (and bluegrass, classical, etc) ... interesting how all that can go with the Dead ... I think it was Phil in an interview who said the challenge a lot of people have with the Dead, as well as jazz etc, is that you have to listen into it and not past it. I think that's true. To me, most popular music is pretty much, "there's the hook, there's the melody, here it comes again, now once more, bang bang it's done." Boooooring. There's nothing to actually listen to.

But then, that's always been the case. Truly good music has always been the specks of gold amid lots of sand and gravel. Of course, I do think there it's easier to find the gold in some eras than others; we don't seem to be in a very interesting music cycle right now, though I'm not really in touch. But if so, maybe we're about due for a good cycle again. Let's hope so!


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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 1, 2010 8:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

No no no MC . She's waiting . Where the hell are you ? ;)
My wife and I both have the infection so that is simpatico . However , both sides of are family think we have a mild form of insanity .

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jul 1, 2010 11:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Hippie chicks are fun to date, but they ain't the marryin' type, believe me.

Lol I'm just kidding. I know a lot of fabulous, intelligent, kind, and beautiful hippie/deadhead women. I also just happen to know a ton of batshit crazy ones, too. :P

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Poster: madmonkmcphee Date: Jun 30, 2010 12:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

@ micah6vs.8: I'm a 28 year old who lives and plays music (drums) in the bay area. I'm very musically influenced by GD, but just about every time I mention GD to my friends the response is almost always negative. Most of my music friends are in to metal, and that's fine, but they can't seem to venture out of the metal genre for 20 seconds. Seems like all they want to hear and play is very loud, distorted, chunky music. I too was in a metal band like this and I had to call it quits because playing loud all the time is not fun for me. Anyway, it seems my friends just can't get past the "hippie" stereotype and won't even give Grateful Dead a chance. Oh well, sucks for them

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jun 30, 2010 5:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Didn't someone post a poll here about this, awhile back - I mean, it wasn't a poll of Forum members but a poll someone found in a news source somwhere. Anyone remember? Ages, income brackets, religious persuasion etc. correlated with approval of the Grateful Dead? (Or did I dream this?)

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Poster: deadinohio Date: Jun 30, 2010 6:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

My 16 year old son loves them thanks to the Rock Band connection. We're going to see Furthur on Friday in Columbus and have seen Ratdog, Phil & Friends and The Dead already. He did not like the herbal odor, which I guess is a very good thing. He also picked up a water bottle with the Steal Your Face logo recently and wears his tour t-shirts with pride.

My 11 year old daughter is only into the Disney stable of performers and asks to "change the station" as soon as possible. But she does recognize more songs and, I think, secretly likes a few.

This post was modified by deadinohio on 2010-06-30 13:44:55

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Jun 30, 2010 8:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

My daughter turns 2 in August, and so far I've introduced her to my own singing of "Monkey and the Engineer" before putting her to bed at night, and various playings of Dead tunes while driving w/her in the car...did catch her 'dancing' somewhat to-of all things--a live '82 version of "Women R Smarter" once--appropriate!--but the toughest part is getting past the firewalls put up by my wife who is seriously burned out on the Dead after 6 years of marriage to me.

Plus, we've reached compromise by mostly playing Dan Zanes tunes, which I HIGHLY recommend for anyone w/really young kids. It's excellent kid AND adult music that's fun w/out being annoying.

he does a pretty cool version of "Walkin' the Dog" and actually does a duet of "Wabash Cannonball" with Bob Weir on one of his CD's.

This post was modified by grendelschoice on 2010-06-30 15:47:56

This post was modified by grendelschoice on 2010-06-30 15:48:44

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Poster: high flow Date: Jun 30, 2010 10:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

We've moved past the Dan Zanes phase, but I 2nd that endorsement. He's one cool cat.

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Poster: shakeitupnow Date: Jun 29, 2010 7:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

two boys 12 & 9 -- they have been exposed to the dead's music every day of their lives (ok, maybe most days, not all). the oldest LOVES terrapin and other than that, it's the jamming not the singing that pulls him in. But, his favorite band is Green Day. the youngest is a Beatles nut, so as long as he is not subjected to the boys covering a beatles tune (sacrilege!), he is happy.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Jun 29, 2010 8:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Two boys 30 and 25. They think I'm nuts. The younger one makes a weird high-pitched noise at me, either in simulation of a JG solo or a Weir spazz-out.

Their musical tastes are mostly embarassing, but every now and then surprising.

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Poster: deadhead53 Date: Jun 30, 2010 1:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Two kids 7 and 3, my three year old can tell if Jerry or Bob is sining and love to ask me about Phil Lesh, why I don't know but I will take it, my 7 year old likes hannah montanna and the jonas brothers but does listen to the dead when I have it on around the house. My 3 year old seems to really like it but not sure if this is a phase or not he also love the black crowes and Gov't Mule and the Stones, so we will see

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Poster: shiphappens Date: Jun 29, 2010 8:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Well let's see, teenage daughter tolerates it and sometimes I catch her singing along. The boys, 10 and 13 like the upbeat tunes like Franklins and Sugar Mags and some of the cover stuff. Funny, found some Dead on my daughters Ipod that she downloaded off my storage drive, Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds from a Red Rocks show. We also have a tradition of cranking Dead tunes when we pull into the ski area parking lot just to scare the tourists. Sometimes I forget and my kids will remind me, "hey dad, slide in some Jerry. Life is good.
Another quick segeway. I found an old 70s vintage steal your face belt at a thrift store. My daughter started wearing it from time to time. She says it is a good conversation starter and people all accross the demographic and age spectrum ask if she likes the Dead. She tells me she says yes, if the boys are cute. Summation? Yeah, they like em, but would never admit it to their old man. Night all.

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Poster: shakeitupnow Date: Jun 30, 2010 7:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

great post! thanks for the smile.

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Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Jun 29, 2010 11:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

My girls (6 & 4) genuinely like Sugar Mag, UJB, FOTD, Ripple, Scarlet Begonias, The Music Never Stopped, fat/chunky/stompin' versions of Big River, and Russian Lullaby from the Grateful Dawg album.

I sing Russian Lullaby so much around the house that they can't help but know that one - such a great tune!

I fully expect them to stop admitting that they like any of it as they get older, but hope that maybe they'll rediscover & appreciate it all over again as adults.

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Poster: Street Pig ! Date: Jun 29, 2010 12:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

My Daughter 21 was around 10 months old at Carter Finley 07-10-1990 and grew up with the Deads music in the background, she can care a less for it, likes the musicians that come from American Idol (Yuck) also Christain Music (cool)

My son 18 was born to Bird Song playing in the room at the birthing center, likes Christain Rock plays drums in a worship band , he is fried from listenng to the dead.

Me 51 don't want it all just a little bit, can't get enough, I'm a hog for ya, Good Lovin' etc...

This post was modified by Street Pig ! on 2010-06-29 19:45:10

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Poster: shakeitupnow Date: Jun 30, 2010 7:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

that's a beautiful picture of jerry with the kids onstage -- where's it from?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 29, 2010 7:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

3 boys , 13 to 9
Oldest - takes every opportunity to bust my stones regarding anything to do w/ Anything GD . I play TerS ( the one he hates the most ) just for the pure entertainment value as he squirms in revulsion . He's worse w/ his mother b/c as he puts it , " Your a hippie , Mom " , his head slightly lowered , gently swaying no , how sad to find you in this condition Mom . He doesn't say that to me 'cause I'd tan his a.. , and I no longer fit the profile . If he begins to irritate us , we just break out singing , " TERR A PIN ! " . Actually a great CBA on that , so little energy expended , so many 13 year old hormones gone . I did catch his shoulders swaying to Shakedown a few times ;)
My other two like some stuff , the aforementioned Shakedown , C/R , Eyes . Fun , nothing crazy . They like music , but it's not high on their priority list now . My oldest can't consume enough . He's in a The Name of This Band phase . I just tell to turn it up a lot .

edit - I let my oldest read this post . He would like to assure all of IA that he does consume music , but not GD ( my post was not clear on that I guess ) . Also , he feels that , " my mind has been poisoned by that awful thing you call music " . See what I mean .

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-06-30 02:43:11

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jun 30, 2010 2:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

It's funny how originally people played this music and it pissed off their parents, and now they are playing it to piss off their kids haha :P

I'm 31 with no kids, so for me the interesting thing has always been trying to find something that my mom doesn't find completely irritating.

To respond to the question about how Midnightcarousel's younger peers respond to the Dead, here are some of my own personal observations...

I recently had a discussion with an early 20's head who really loves 1989. His theory was that people who become Deadheads always have a real affinity or preference for whatever era they heard that first got them excited. For him it was 89. That might be true, for me it was the earlier years that I first heard, and which I prefer now.

Through the local cover band scene I've met quite my share of the younger deadheads out there today (though at 31 I consider myself a younger head, I was only 16 the last summer the Dead toured) who were very small children when Jerry died and the GD stopped touring. For them the cover band thing IS the Grateful Dead. They occasionally might see Ratdog or Phil and such, but 99% of their concert attendance comes in the way of DSO and other local tributes that play regularly here in St. Louis. Essentially their only option to get into it all through the live experience is through the cover bands.

The biggest GD tribute around here is The Schwag, who hold big festivals a couple times a year on 330 acres of property they own in Southern Mo (the lineup usually consists of other cover bands, rarely any of the better original acts out there today). They've been around over 15 years but are starting to gain some more popularity ever since Stu Allen became a fairly permanent member and their bass player has been touring with Melvin and JGB for the last year or so.

Anyway I have talked to and known hundreds of kids who only went down there because they heard it was a "free for all" and that they could score good pot/drugs down there. Some of them wouldn't even watch any of the bands. But usually most of them would go there for the "wrong" reasons, then end up hearing the GD music and liking it.

I personally turned a 16 year old onto these festivals years ago, he was more of a metalhead type who only went to score dope. Now in his early 20's the guy is one of the biggest Deadheads I've ever known with a true love and passion for the music.

Overall it seems that the majority of the younger heads that I've met don't initially come to the local tribute band shows/festivals because of the music. For a lot of them it is more about "the scene." Eventually some of them develop a real love for the music. But I would say the majority of them just come around for the party.

I was the opposite of how most people get into the Dead these days. I first heard live tapes long before I ever saw The Dead or any subsequent band (Ratdog, Phil, Other Ones, Furthur, etc), and became a diehard fan, musically. Before I'd ever even seen any sort of live show I already had quite a few live tapes and knew the reperoire pretty well. So I first went to shows knowing full well what I was getting into, to an extent. Nowdays, it seems that it isn't so much the music that draws people, it's the party.

I think what is happening today is probably pretty similar to 1987 when Dead shows began drawing a much broader type of concertgoer. I think a lot of kids get into it for the party, and over the course of things they meet some really cool and nice people, and generally have some sort of "epiphany" moment on some sort of psychedelic and they really start to "get" the music. I think that has probably been going on in GD land since the very beginning. It's pretty much inherent to the whole modern concept of what being a Deadhead is. Discovering that something is happening on a deeper level than just a rock show, bonding with like-minded people, etc.

We also have another popular GD tribute, Jake's Leg, who have been together over 30 years. Their fanbase tends to be the older, more relaxed, music-loving Head. They generally do not like the Schwag because of their notorious popularity among the younger, "wookieish" type of Deadhead. It's pretty polarizing. It's almost like the same arguments you hear between Phish and GD fans. That Phish brings out the younger, party way too hard, druggie, inconsiderate following (The Schwag), and that the Dead shows bring out the calmer, older, more music-loving person (Jake's Leg). I don't myself necessarily buy into that, I think both bands/scenes have their share of assholes, but for the sake of my argument...I won't even begin a debate about the observations many are making nowdays about the seemingly deteriorating quality of fans at shows. This is already off topic enough.

Actually now that I re-read what was asked, this doesn't really answer the question. The question was how a specific person's assumedly non-deadhead peers view the scene. Instead you got a rant about the local cover band scene in st louis. Sorry 'bout that :P

This post was modified by Jim F on 2010-06-30 09:01:40

This post was modified by Jim F on 2010-06-30 09:03:43

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 30, 2010 2:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

You are far to hard on yourself here . That was quite a bit of light , and little heat . The Futhur 6/26 thread below has some of my thoughts on this subject .

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jul 1, 2010 1:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Well thank you. The other day a taper posted a little rant on Workingman's Tracker about his bad experience at a recent Phish show, where people literally began attacking the tapers with glow sticks, beach balls, beer bottles, etc. The poor guy had his mics knocked clean out of the stand and was so upset that he packed up, left early, and skipped the following night.

Anyway I shared his post on my Facebook page and began a lengthy rant on some of the reasons why I feel that many people are observing a bit of a deterioration in concert crowds these days, specifically in the "jam band" or Dead scene. I got some very insightful replies from some of my older friends who were at Dead shows starting as early as 1968, many of them have played in GD tribute bands themselves over the years. Of course one of them said it's been all downhill since Altamont lol. So the topic has been on my mind a lot lately and I've done quite a bit of thinking, debating, and writing about it.

I personally hooked up with one of those local GD tributes and was a die hard follower for some 10 years. For quite a spell I was their "archivist" of sorts, taped probably around 200 of their shows, kept their setlists for them, stuff like that. In the last year I had to step away from all of it, in part due to some differences between their new management and myself, and other reasons including my growing disillusion and dislike for what I felt was an increasingly younger and inconsiderate fanbase. Lack of musical interest was also a part of it. As "keepers of the flame" I have to respect them, and any tribute band, as well as the Furthur's and the Ratdog's and such for keeping the music alive for the younger generations. But I personally felt that they were lacking something creatively and decided I would rather spend more time and energy on original artists, while still maintaining my love for Grateful Dead music (though my last GD show of sorts was DSO back in February...if only Furthur would stop hating St. Louis, I'd go. We have been passed up on every Ratdog/Phil/Dead/Furthur tour for 2 or 3 years now).

In my die-hard years of attending their festivals, my ex-girlfriend was an employee who ran their medical unit, and I spent a lot of time around the psychedelic casualties that accompany such events. Most of what I saw was not pretty. Lots of kids who thought that it was all about going down to a place where you can do whatever you want and take as many drugs as possible, almost always obtained from people they did not know. Naturally this led to many people taking way too much of things that might not even have been what they thought they were taking.

Drug use and drug culture has long been an integral, though not necessary (I'm relatively "sober" myself, I do not smoke pot or take psychedelics anymore), part of the GD scene. But I think nowdays the drugs are different than the ones people took years ago. Things like ecstasy pills that are full of "research chemicals" and such. I also feel that the modern phenomenon of the "festival circuit" that has become a major part of the scene over the last 10 years or so has changed the concept of what it means to go to a concert. Before all of the modern festivals people would maybe just see a show around town, then go home when it was over. This didn't provide them with as much ease of overindulgence possible at a festival, which have massive drug availability, little security, and plenty of time to do your thing and recover and do it all over again the next day. I think that the people that went "on tour" back in the 80's and into the 90's were much more into the music. There was much more of a focus on the music itself, and the parking lot scene wasn't as much of a part of it. I personally feel that in GDland, there are 2 types of fans, music people, and parking lot people. I think we are seeing more and more "parking lot people" at shows nowdays.

I personally feel that the modern festival circuit has focused more on building the event around the parking lot scene, with the music being more of an afterthought for a lot of people. Many of the younger fans, I think, go to these events for "the wrong reasons." I think that this has caused younger fans to take on a mindset of the concerts and events being about pushing your body to it's limits with substances and the like, which I think has naturally led to an increase in erratic behavior at all concerts, both festival shows as well as the one-nighters.

I alluded to things having a sort of "1987" feel, where you have more people not necessarily coming around to festivals because of the music but more for the sideshow. This is all just my opinion of course, perhaps I'm just jaded now lol. I think what happened in 1987 was that as these kinds of people flooded the scene, they were sortof policed and educated by the elders and they eventually matured and learned more about proper behavior and such. They got "sucked in" and became Deadheads and sortof learned a proper protocol. I think that that still goes on today, I've seen it myself, but maybe perhaps there just aren't enough older, wiser heads around to set a good example for the younger generation. Maybe a lot of them just left the scene for whatever reason/s. I dunno, just some thoughts.

I hesitate to even get into this discussion on here, specifically regarding the aforementioned tribute band, as the band has some recordings on here (I would recommend them, actually, there is some decent stuff in there), and occasionally some of their fans access their recordings here. But I don't think any of them have any user names (aside from one friend of mine who uploads their more current concerts here) or read the forums at all. Eh who cares, I have my right to my opinions and thoughts on "the scene" at large. I'm not too worried about it...

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 1, 2010 2:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

It is slipping away , so someone is going to have to be dedicated to follow .
You nailed it in P # 7 . I was one of those touch heads . We ' elders ' need to step it up , now . We need to stop denigrating what these ' kids ' know , the post '95 spin-offs . However , always calling the shots as we see'um . That's part of the deal as well .
Of course , It's always too much . It always will be .
Gotta teach those lion cubs . They want to be taught . They will carry the light next

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 2, 2010 6:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

Interesting. This really deserves its own thread ... how things have or haven't changed, etc. I'm not in touch with the tribute/Phish-type scene, but had honestly hoped it did preserve more of the atmosphere.

There are things you can replace, and others you cannot ...

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 2, 2010 7:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

I am thinking of how to word it , but it's coming .

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jun 30, 2010 5:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

>It's funny how originally people played this music and it pissed off their parents, and now they are playing it to piss off their kids haha :P

Not only that, but years ago my parents told me it was too loud, turn it down, and now my son tells me it's too loud, turn it down.

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jul 1, 2010 1:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

^hahaha that's funny! Totally supports my theory.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Jun 29, 2010 11:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

My eldest, 20 years in Aug. Is a fan, he has a wide musical interest and loves Bluegrass and Reggae as well. He also plays guitar and mandolin.

My youngest, 18, has just heard too much Dead in her time. She also listens to a wide range of music, from classics like Led Zep, Jimi, Janis to Reggae and more contemporary stuff.

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Poster: high flow Date: Jun 29, 2010 12:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

I've never asked my daughter what she likes or dislikes. I can't handle the truth. However, I loaded her MP3 player and included AmBeauty and have noticed her playing that album when she's bored of Disney Jams and Jonas Bros.

My boy, on the other hand, is obsessed with trains. So ANY song which mentions a train is in his wheelhouse.

"Dad! Is this a train song?"

He's 4. So whether it's a blues tune like So Many Roads, So Many Trains to Ride, or bluegrass like Texas Eagle by Steve Earle and Del McCoury, or Monkey and The Engineer he's all over it. He does not care who's singin' or playin'.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 29, 2010 3:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

I see trouble ahead in preschool if he gets into Casey Jones. Class singalong time could be interesting.

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Poster: high flow Date: Jun 29, 2010 8:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: kids and the Dead

..and you know that notion......just crossed my.......miiiiind.